Tuesday 22 May 2012

dissent and debate

The YES to Independence campaign is about to launch in Scotland this Friday, followed shortly thereafter by the 'Jubilee' holiday - the establishment trying to reinforce the institution of monarchy aided by a sycophantic media hyperbole.  So vile it is like trying to spoonfeed us, and especially children, something sickening and poisonous while rotting corpses litter the house.  It's out of control.  Astonishingly, this weekend there has been an attempt by parts of the YES campaign to silence any discussion whatsoever on the subject of the monarchy, saying this will damage the campaign.  The reality is that trying to silence people is what is damaging and absolutely unacceptable.  As if the intolerance and imposition of monarchy upon us was not bad enough already.  It is completely and utterly wrong to try to stifle debate on this or any other issue. 

Scratch the surface and one of them declares as a monarchist.  So no-one is supposed to say anything for fear of upsetting the monarchists?  Why would that be?  The answer is because they have no arguments to debate with, which they even admit themselves, 'not one decent, logical, morally-sound argument for the retention of the Royal family in the 21st century'  wrote a monarchist on Sunday here before claiming 'we love' Liz Windsor, as if it was about her as a person and not about a secretive, monolithic institution absorbing millions in public money every year, with an outrageous sense of entitlement to any and all public money astonishing populated by anonymous officials who speak as buildings - 'the palace says' 'Clarence House denies', an institution reinforcing and perpetuating an antiquated feudal political system with monarchic powers swilling around to be accessed by whomsoever manoeuvres their way into Number 10, completely disproportionate to the democratic mandate their party did, or did not, gain and irrelevant to any deals struck with other parties.  Too much of the wrong kind of corrupting power, available at Westminster.

How can we 'love' this remote woman who most of us have never met, nor ever will meet, and whose image is so very carefully controlled, as is she?  We do not know her.  Your town will contain a sweet old lady who may appreciate a bunch of flowers if that's your motivation - give one of them some of your 'love'.  Monarchists who profess 'love' for Liz Windsor should perhaps consider being at the centre of this stultifying institution as 'their' queen is an abuse of her a sad life  She has no human right to vote, stand for election or determine her own destiny, she has not the right to speak anything but the elected government's words.  She is silenced in public as the institution also tries to silence dissent from the people. She and her son do have the right to veto government legislation of course and she has access to the Prime Minister's ear every week where no-one knows what she says then when she is not silenced.  Still it would appear that this 'royal' family would be happier and we'd all be healthier if they were a corgi-whisperer or a woffly weatherman.  Certainly there are monarchy fanatics like this who fill their homes, or business as in this case, with memorabilia and try to impose their fanaticism on others, but there are fanatics of many things and people, so what?   Should one of the Beatles or Bay City Rollers have been head of state?

We're told 'the problem' for republicans is everything we say 'makes perfect sense 'and yet here we are'.  Ah, as if by magic.   The monarchy springs up like a snowdrop through the frozen ground.  Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the £36,000+ ,of public money of course, that offices at Clarence House and Buckingham Palace have access to every single day to use in the PR promotion of the institution of monarchy then?  Not the relentless sycophantic media.  Nothing whatsoever to do with the insidious permeation of institutions and organisations with 'royal' this, 'royal' that, patron of this, patron of that, the Crown in Parliament, the Sovereign at the core and apogee of a class structure never dismantled, the same families in power century after century.  The descendant of the schemer behind the Glencoe massacre and the union, John Dalrymple Master of Stair, in the House of Lords now.  In 1911 the House of Lords and parliament passed an Act stating it would become determined by popular vote rather than heredity, and then, what happened?  Did they all prick their fingers on a needle and fall asleep for a hundred years?  They may as well have.  The excruciating spectacle last year of the Speaker of the House of Commons whispering in the chamber about how "very rare, very sparing and very respectful" any mention of the royal family should be, when MPs were trying to discuss the unfortunate behaviour and associations of Andrew Windsor.  Perhaps a fairy dies every time the royal family is mentioned in Westminster.  But apparently none of this is what is reinforcing the monarchy, which is actually a Christmas miracle in the face of its own indefensibility.  Aye right.


Monarchists are trying to tell us that a majority of people are so enamoured of Elizabeth Windsor and so thrilled in anticipation at the prospect of Charles as their next head of state that they won't vote YES to independence if they think NO is the best way of keeping the monarchy?  The concept is ridiculous.  What about the many who will vote YES as the best and quickest way to get rid of it?  That's the reality.  And how do you argue for escape from the Westminster system without talking about what the Westminster system entails?  It makes no sense.  Tell the truth and shame the devil.  This should be about opening things up not shutting them down, about moving forward not standing still and terrified.     
    
People should not be silent, nor bow their heads, nor be forced to stand up for something they don't believe in or are actively opposed to and they should not be forced to swear an oath of allegiance they do not mean one word of.  Any blind faith some people might have in monarchy is their problem, not ours, and they're welcome to it.  People can carry on their worshipping and fanaticism about this family after they have been removed from hereditary position in government, access to public money and occupation of public buildings and land.  Don't be surprised if they might not want you to though.


    

10 comments:

  1. We need our independence first that is ,to me, is paramount.

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    1. In order for that to be achieved all the pro independence arguments must be made.

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  2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  3. It is hard to have a debate about this with one of the longest serving and most liked monarchs in history on the throne. Whatever your views about the institution of monarchy, the queen has been an excellent ambassador for the United Kingdom in its present form. It is difficult to imagine that President Blair, or President Cameron - or god forbid President Thatcher (shudders) would have done a better job. In these pre-referendum days we must expect that Lizzie will remain head of state of an Independent Scotland. Once Independence has been achieved then we are likely to be in a better position to discuss who the people of an Independent Scotland want as their Head of State. Indeed we absolutely MUST have that discussion - a new country will want a new constitution and the relationship between the people and their head of state - whether that be the monarch or an elected individual will have to be redefined.

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    1. Thanks for your comments. It's not that hard to have the debate now, people are having it. The length of time something has been in situ is not an argument for its retention, quite the opposite. The popularity of the monarch is propagated by the palace PR machine and obsequious media and the monarchy is definitely not as popular as it is made out to be or as it used to be, smaller crowds etc. Many do not agree that the monarch has been an excellent ambassador - she's merely a figurehead and a symbol and has no mandate to speak for the country, a Mickey Mouse head of state. The monarchy is also a very stilted and rigid institution and unfortunately that does not nurture an easy manner with people, but does place great emphasis on its own protocols, something painfully seen when the monarch dealt very clumsily with Barack Obama's toast going a bit wrong at the Buckingham Palace dinner. Not very good with children either.
      I really wish I had £1 for every time this 'President Blair' was trotted out, it is as if people have been programmed because they really do all say exactly the same things when they begin the argument, I wonder where the programming came from...? What no-one ever explains is how this spectre of President Blair would ever be voted in as he is so unpopular but if he ever had been at some point then he would have been voted out as well - we won't be able to vote out Liz, Charles, Andrew or any other monarch, and of course an elected person's progeny won't inherit the position which is kind of the point. Also the fact is that the centuries old 'Crown in Parliament' deal has made all of the people you mention above far more powerful in their times in office as Prime Minister than they would have been if they had been elected heads of state with proportionate, accountable powers. The royal prerogative powers handed to the Prime Minister are autocratic, undemocratic and monarchic. That's why Cameron was able to defy the cabinet the other month to bring in minimum alcohol pricing measures that he alone desired - when push comes to shove the PM can do that, and they do. The PM can write law, go to war without reference to their party, parliament and certainly not the country. They alone can decide the u-turns or not, the policies, who can stay and go, a yacht, or not, or oh I think I'll abolish that pesky other democratic body in this city, the GLC, begone! You have no need to fear the spectre of President Blair because you've already had King Tony, Queen Maggie and we have King Dave and power like that corrupts, or haven't you noticed?
      The Irish currently have a poet as their head of state and it wouldn't have to be a president, we could name the position whatever we want...
      Perhaps an 86 year old woman might appreciate the offer of a graceful retirement for herself and her heirs and successors in perpetuity to the new nation as citizens? There is actually nothing better they could ever be offered. It's a pretty selfish and inhuman imposition to expect anything else because monarchy is as much of an evil to them as it is to the people, notwithstanding the brainwashing that's done from birth by the kind of people who must think such behaviour is advisable or are there for what they can get from the situation. The only moral and human way forward is to extricate this institution from all of our lives and we are talking about it right now.

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  4. Thanks for your comments. It's not that hard to have the debate now, people are having it. The length of time something has been in situ is not an argument for its retention, quite the opposite. The popularity of the monarch is propagated by the palace PR machine and obsequious media and the monarchy is definitely not as popular as it is made out to be or as it used to be, smaller crowds etc. Many do not agree that the monarch has been an excellent ambassador - she's merely a figurehead and a symbol and has no mandate to speak for the country, a Mickey Mouse head of state. The monarchy is also a very stilted and rigid institution and unfortunately that does not nurture an easy manner with people, but does place great emphasis on its own protocols, something painfully seen when the monarch dealt very clumsily with Barack Obama's toast going a bit wrong at the Buckingham Palace dinner. Not very good with children either.
    I really wish I had £1 for every time this 'President Blair' was trotted out, it is as if people have been programmed because they really do all say exactly the same things when they begin the argument, I wonder where the programming came from...? What no-one ever explains is how this spectre of President Blair would ever be voted in as he is so unpopular but if he ever had been at some point then he would have been voted out as well - we won't be able to vote out Liz, Charles, Andrew or any other monarch, and of course an elected person's progeny won't inherit the position which is kind of the point. Also the fact is that the centuries old 'Crown in Parliament' deal has made all of the people you mention above far more powerful in their times in office as Prime Minister than they would have been if they had been elected heads of state with proportionate, accountable powers. The royal prerogative powers handed to the Prime Minister are autocratic, undemocratic and monarchic. That's why Cameron was able to defy the cabinet the other month to bring in minimum alcohol pricing measures that he alone desired - when push comes to shove the PM can do that, and they do. The PM can write law, go to war without reference to their party, parliament and certainly not the country. They alone can decide the u-turns or not, the policies, who can stay and go, a yacht, or not, or oh I think I'll abolish that pesky other democratic body in this city, the GLC, begone! You have no need to fear the spectre of President Blair because you've already had King Tony, Queen Maggie and we have King Dave and power like that corrupts, or haven't you noticed?
    The Irish currently have a poet as their head of state and it wouldn't have to be a president, we could name the position whatever we want...
    Perhaps an 86 year old woman might appreciate the offer of a graceful retirement for herself and her heirs and successors in perpetuity to the new nation as citizens? There is actually nothing better they could ever be offered. It's a pretty selfish and inhuman imposition to expect anything else because monarchy is as much of an evil to them as it is to the people, notwithstanding the brainwashing that's done from birth by the kind of people who must think such behaviour is advisable or are there for what they can get from the situation. The only moral and human way forward is to extricate this institution from all of our lives and we are talking about it right now.

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  5. Interesting to see the anti-Windsors coming up with the usual nonsense.

    First off, the Irish have a POLITICIAN as their president. He is also a very poor poet whose works have attracted considerable literary criticism. See Google.

    The minimum alcohol pricing has been ENTIRELY in the purview of the Scottish government which has introduced the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill. David Cameron and Parliament have had nothing to do with it.

    As for 'President Blair/Thatcher/etc' - yes indeed you might well decide not to vote for them. Which rather begs the question of who WILL you be voting for, then? Who exactly will be able to afford the campaign costs, if not the main political parties? The super-rich, is who. Still comfortable?

    The Royal Prerogative powers are subject to judicial review (with the exception of defence matters), so there is a check on their usage. No surprise this never gets mentioned as it doesn't support your cause. Try being honest about the facts.

    SOME may think the Queen has not been an excellent ambassador for our country. Far many more do though.

    The monarchy is way more popular than 'republicans' like to think - see the latest Ipsos MORI poll, which puts support for republicanism down at 13%. Year on year, support has dwindled. Something no-one admitting to your cause ever mentions or dares address. Why is that?

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    1. the monarchy is only seemingly popular due to the media pushing out the patriotic boat for the diamond jubilee, yes lets celebrate being British/Scots/ Welsh/English whatever, but in the long term its democracy that counts just like in the USA and France where they annually celebrate with pomp and circumstance their nation and their birthright to liberty and democracy, and as we should here in Great Britain

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    2. Interesting to see the monarchist anonymous as usual. No, we are not 'anti-Windsors', we are the only ones speaking up for their human rights. You concede that the Irish president has written poetic works then if you are critical of them, so he is a poet.
      I am not referring to minimum alcohol pricing in Scotland. Don't know if you're being wilfully ignorant and disingenuous here in order to make a spurious point or if you are simply rather unaware but I thought it was clear I was referring to the Westminster cabinet and minimum alcohol pricing legislation being brought in to England and Wales on the say of David Cameron alone - the rest of the cabinet disagreed with him.
      Arrangement for head of state campaigns could be made egalitarian and not just accessible to the super rich.
      'a check' on royal prerogative powers usage by judicial review? I think you'll find it's the other way around. Try looking up what was done to the Chagos islanders and how the High Court of Justice of England and Wales ruled an order given by the British government to exile the islanders using royal prerogative powers was unlawful but their ruling was rendered meaningless by the government simply issuing another Order using royal prerogative to do the same thing again. It rather looks like anything judicial is toothless in the face of these powers doesn't it?
      As regards polls I've never seen this 13% one. It's more like 26% as the recognised figure I think you'll find but if the wording is about how much people care about the monarchy/royal wedding/jubilee then it swings up to 70% - 86% who do not really care much either way about them. And as is obvious, if the monarchy is as incredibly popular as the hard core of fanatical right wing pro-monarchists (who are by the way the ones the police are looking at right now as they did before the royal wedding as a threat to the Windsors, not us, because they are the unbalanced obsessive extremists) are telling us, well there should be no problem for you letting us have a vote on it should there?

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  6. Interesting to see the monarchist anonymous as usual. No, we are not 'anti-Windsors', we are the only ones speaking up for their human rights. You concede that the Irish president has written poetic works then if you are critical of them, so he is a poet.
    I am not referring to minimum alcohol pricing in Scotland. Don't know if you're being wilfully ignorant and disingenuous here in order to make a spurious point or if you are simply rather unaware but I thought it was clear I was referring to the Westminster cabinet and minimum alcohol pricing legislation being brought in to England and Wales on the say of David Cameron alone - the rest of the cabinet disagreed with him. Arrangement for head of state campaigns could be made egalitarian and not just accessible to the super rich. 'a check' on royal prerogative powers usage by judicial review? I think you'll find it's the other way around. Try looking up what was done to the Chagos islanders and how the High Court of Justice of England and Wales ruled an order given by the British government to exile the islanders using royal prerogative powers was unlawful but their ruling was rendered meaningless by the government simply issuing another Order using royal prerogative to do the same thing again. It rather looks like anything judicial is toothless in the face of these powers doesn't it? As regards polls I've never seen this 13% one. It's more like 26% as the recognised figure I think you'll find but if the wording is about how much people care about the monarchy/royal wedding/jubilee then it swings up to 70% - 86% who do not really care much either way about them. And as is obvious, if the monarchy is as incredibly popular as the hard core of fanatical right wing pro-monarchists (who are by the way the ones the police are looking at right now as they did before the royal wedding as a threat to the Windsors, not us, because they are the unbalanced obsessive extremists) are telling us, well there should be no problem for you letting have a vote on it should there?

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